The parents listed for this individual are speculative and may not be based on sound genealogical research. Sources to prove or disprove this ancestry are needed. Please contact the Profile Manager or leave information on the bulletin board. It must be decided if this profile must be disconnected from her parents, as there has as yet been little evidence found for the validity of the connections - see the comments and research notes.
Profile category is "Needs Validation" & "Needs Transcription" - Which means the uploading of a baptism image (if possible), properly cited so that it will not cause copyright issues, and the full transcription [not only from FamilySearch itself] of the the baptism entry with LNAB (LastNameAtBaptism) to prove the spelling. The project profile (wikitrees-cogh-stamouer-progenitorATgooglegroups.com) has been added to the trusted list of this progenitor profile [Privacy Tab] and then also activated as active manager (though this progenitor profile still has to be validated with a [transcription of a] baptism [image]), and this profile has been Project Profile Protected). The bio has been been integrated as best possible for the time being. Primary records will probably still be around in archives in Europe and in the Netherlands.
a1 Jacques Malan [9] Waarsk. aangekom in 1668 met die "Berg China" 18 Oct 1694 eienaar van "La Motte" Franschhoek, 1709 koop hy "Morgenster" naby Somerset-Wes, een van die vier gedeeltes van "Wegelegen", die landgoed van Adriaan van der Stel. In 1719 verkoop hy "La Motte", gesterf: omstr. 1742, getroud: 1699 Elisabeth le Long, weduwee van: Jean Jourdan (Jordaan). [1][9]
a1 Jean Jourdan (nou Jordaan) van Cabrière, in Frankryk, gebore: 1660. Uitgekom op die skip Berg China[9] in 1688, later eienaar van die plaas “La Motte” in Franschhoek, gesterf: voor Januarie 1699, getroud: Elisabeth of Isabeau le Long. [1][9]
Inventaris mitsgaders taxatie van den boedel en goederen, schulden en inneschulden, naargelaten en met de dood ontruijmt door Elisabeth le Long, huijsvrouw van den landbouwer Jaques Malan, bij den anderen in gemeenschap beseten en dus de helft voor gem: J: Mallan ter eender en dan nog ten voordeelen van deselve met [1][9] de 9 naargelaten kinderen van den overledene als
* Pieter
* Jan
* Paul
* Louis en
* Johanna Jourdaan getrouwt met den landbouwer Andries Hesselbaart
Voorkinderen bij haar eerste man Jan Jourdaan in huwelijk verwekt
* Elisabeth Anna
* Daniel
* Maria
* David
Kinderen van ’t laaste bed ider in eguale portien ter andere zijde
1 opstal over de Botter Revier gen:t de Faisante Coraal gewardeert op ƒ100
Op de plaats van de soon Daniel Malang gelegen in Hottentots Hollant
Aan de Peerdeberg op de plaats van de soon David Malang
Aldus geinventariseert en getaxeert so op de plaats in Hottentots Hollant als aan de Paardeberg den 3, 4 en 7:e September 1736. [14][9]
Instead for the time being, Isabeau (le Longue) Malan (abt. 1668 - 1736) (Le Longue-2) has been selected as mother, until further research has been done to clear things up. [15]
Action Taken [16]: Replaced the mother Isabeau (le Longue) Malan (abt. 1668 - 1736) (Le Longue-2) with Isabeau (Le Long) Jourdan (1668 - 1736) (Le Long-25) based on the following advice from Danie Malan (co-author of the 1998 and 2018 versions of the "Malans van Suid-Afrika", involved with further research on the Malans of South Africa and the genealogist of the Malan Family Association (http://malanbond.co.za): "I have started to look into Isabeau le Long, Le Longue-2 and 25. A few quick facts:
- 1. On 23 Oct 1685 Pierre Long, his wife, Jeanne Gouiran and daughters Elisabeth and Catherine abjure their faith at La Motte d'Aigues.
- 2. On 31 Oct 1687 Isabeau Longue of La Motte d'Aigues received monetary assistance from the Frankfurt-am-Mein church. Travelling with her were Suzanne Goirand but the relationship between them is unknown.
- 3. Jean le Long, Le Longue-3, were at the Cape before 1685. It is unlikely that Isabeau would have been left behind so he is unlikely to be her father. The names Jean and Marie does not fit the children of Jean Jourdan and Isabeau but Pierre and Jeanne does.
So the sources points to Pierre and Jeanne Gouirand being the parents of Isabeau. Therefore Le_Long-25 has the correct parents.[16]
The le Longs in Boucher: "The relationship between the various members of the Le Long family at the Cape cannot yet be fully elucidated. Elisabeth {Le_Longue-2 or Le_Long-25?} was perhaps the sister of Charles and Jean le Long (Le_Longue-3?); Jean had a daughter Marie (Le_Long-2?) and it seems not unlikely that the Jacques le Long who died early in 1707 at the hands of a certain Abraham Jacob was Jean’s son. Jacques le Long is presumably the Jacobus le Long whose name is encountered among the Drakenstein burgher infantry shortly before that date.J.Hoge’s researches have established that Charles le Long came to the United Provinces from the Palatinate, while more recently A.M. Hugo has suggested that Elisabeth might have been the daughter of a Blois attorney Louis le Long and his wife Marie Baignoulx, born in 1653. This possibility is reinforced by Paul de Felice’s assertion that a Pierre Baignoulx preached a sermon at the Cape towards the end of the seventeenth century. On the other hand, the Elisabeth le Long at the Cape would seem to have been a much younger woman. The Le Long emigration is associated with the sailing of the Suijdbeveland from Zeeland on April 22, 1688, the vessel which brought to the Cape the pastor Simond, to be discussed in a later chapter, his wife Anne de Berault and her brother Louis. As the Beraults came from the L’Aigle district in Normandy, perhaps the Le Longs hailed from the same town. The name is known there. However the ship also carried refugees from Dieppe, where a Calvinist servant Jean le Long was living in 1686. Pp120-1" (Boucher.M (1981). French speakers at the Cape: The European Background. Pretoria, UNISA: Ch 5: Cape settlers I: from the Loire to the Channel) [18]
Ex Geni: " Isabeau 'Elizabeth' le Long, SM/PROG MP; Gender: Female; Birth: circa 1668; La Motte d'Aigues, Provence, France; Death: August 1736 (64-72); Stellenbosch, Cape Winelands, Western Cape, South Africa (Graf nr. 8, en saam met Jacob Malang en twee van haar kleinkinders hierin begrawe. Moederkerk, Stellenbosch); Place of Burial: Moederkerk, Stellenbosch, Caap de Goede Hoop, Suid Afrika; Immediate Family: Daughter of Pierre Le Long and Jeanne le Long; Wife of Jean Jourdan, de Belle Etoile SV/PROG I and Jacques Mallan, SV/PROG; Mother of Cornelis Johannes Petrus Jordaan, b1; Pierre Jordaan; Jean Jordaan, b2; Paul Jordaan, a1b3; Louis Jordaan a1b4; Johanna Jordaan, a1b5 SM; Jacobus Malan b1; Elizabeth Anna Malan, b2 SM; Daniel Malan, b3; Maria Malan, b4; Catharina Malan, b5; David Malan, b6 and Jacob b7. Sister of Catherine le Long
Inventories of the Orphan Chamber Cape Town Archives Repository, South Africa Ref no.: MOOC8-5.105 LE LONG, Elisabeth INVENTARIS 3 Sep 1736 on http://databases.tanap.net/mooc/
Appy, Bernard: La communauté protestante de La Motte d'Aigues sous l'Ancien Régime. 3 E 56/299 : 1685 Transcription des abjurations collectives de Cabrières d'Aigues et de La Motte d'Aigues, p8; https://appy-histoire.fr/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/lmda1685a.pdf : 30 Aug 2023.
Pierre Long, à feu Jean, aagé de 54 ans, avec Élizabet et Catherine, ces deux filles jeunes, et Jeanne Goirande, sa fame, a déclaré estre mallade et incomodée, et n’a sceu signer.
Translation:
Pierre Long, son of Jean, aged 54 years, with Élizabet et Catherine, his two daugters, and Jeanne Goirande, his wife, declared that he is sick and don't know how to sign.
DNA Connections
It may be possible to confirm family relationships.
It is likely that these
autosomal DNA
test-takers will share some percentage of DNA with Isabeau:
Hi People - This conflation between Le_Longue-2 and Le_Long-25 has gone on for a long while now. I have not seen any concrete evidence in favor of either (Le Longe / Couchet) or (Le Longe / Gouirian) .
I have just spent 2 solid days looking through all the documentation available, and scouring the French sites with cross eyes over script written French. Other than the prior documented likely place of origin (being La Motte-d'Aigues, Provence, France), and likely arrival on the "Wapen van Alkmaar" and not the "Good Ship China" like her husband Jean Jourdan , I find nothing concrete.
For the sake of sanity in the Wikkie is it not feasible to create a new Isabeau that encompasses the facts to hand, and divorce her from both (undocumented) sets of parents. And when some person finally nails a good birth record in La Motte we can then update accordingly ?
We could just divorce both profiles from the parent profiles and merge the two, if this is what you mean ... (leaving research notes on all profiles accordingly) ...
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm suggesting - From what I saw over the weekend, the various Genealogical sites (Geni & Family search & Wikki tree) are using each other as "Sources" for the parents of this girl. But I don't see anything like a definite "proof" of parent.
In all events to trace her back to le Motte during the very unsettled Europe of around 1650 may prove to be impossible? Especially given that she seems to have kindda travled on her own and not in a family group of de Longe? Yes there is the the other girl whom is proposed as a cousin (Suzanne Goirande) that she is recorded as travelling across Europe with - but no hard answers. So make her stand in her own right and let the parents come as they might!
Le Longue-2 and Le Long-25 are not ready to be merged because: Please do not propose a merge until the conflicting parent profiles have been sorted. There is still research being done. They might not be the same persons or there might be a conflation of marriage somewhere!
Le Longue-2 and Le Long-25 are not ready to be merged because: Please do not propose a merge until the conflicting parent profiles have been sorted. There is still research being done. They might not be the same persons or there might be a conflation of marriage somewhere!
Le Longue-2 and Le Long-25 appear to represent the same person because: Please consider her estate MOOC8/5.105 which states "den boedel en goederen, schulden en inneschulden, naargelaten en met de dood ontruijmt door Elisabeth le Long, huijsvrouw van den landbouwer Jaques Malan .... de 9 naargelaten kinderen van den overledene als .... voorkinderen bij haar eerste man Jan Jourdaan in huwelijk verwekt..."
The same individual was married to both Jourdaan and Malan.
Please do not propose a merge until the conflicting parent profiles have been sorted. There is still research being done. They might not be the same persons or there might be a conflation of marriage somewhere!
attached to husband Jean Jordan, and so took effort to go to the LDS site and find the original picture, and the preceding page of this inventory of estate. Unfortunately this adds confusion rather than clarifies things! The transcription given in the biography gives it as the Inventory of "Pieter Schordan" deceased in favor of his "egte huijsvrouw" Isabella Longe. I can accept that Sch may be a corruption of J which would yield Jordan, but the first name in the text and original document are clearly either Pieter or Pierre - and NOT Jean. So did Isabeau shack up with his husbands brother sometime around 1699?
Elizabeth Jourdan (Le Long-25) and Isabeau Malan (Le Longue-2) have been matched due two conflicting parent profiles. Needs to be researched first before rejection or merging.
Elizabeth Jourdan (Le Long-25) and Isabeau Malan (Le Longue-2) has been set as matches because of conflicting parent profiles. Needs to be researched first before rejection or merging.
Le 18 janvier
Lannee 1699
Janne fille de izabeau Longue Veuve
du defunct jean jourdan pour temoins
Jacque Mallant Et Hanne fauche
pour Marraine
The 18 January in the year 1699. Janne daughter of Izabeau Longue widow of the deceased Jean Jourdan, as witness Jacques Mallant and Hanna Fauche as godmother.
Le Longue-2 and Le Long-5 are not ready to be merged because: Le Long-5 needs to be de-protected first as it does not have the correct spelling of the LNAB. Please be patient. (30 May 2015).
Le Longue-2 and Le Long-5 are not ready to be merged because: Le Long-5 needs to be de-protected first as it does not have the correct spelling of the LNAB. Please be patient. (30 May 2015).
Le Longue-2 and Le Long-5 are not ready to be merged because: Le Long-5 needs to be de-protected first because le Longue-2 is obviously the nearest to correct spelling of the LNAB.
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Isabeau is
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Now the the current 'parents' Jean (le Longue) le Longe (1643 - abt. 1721) and Maria (Cochet) le Longue (1645 - 1721) should be by the same reasoning also be disconnected from the 'child' profile of Isabeau (le Longue) Jourdan (abt. 1668 - 1736).
Van der Walt-440 15 May 2021.
edited by Philip van der Walt
I have just spent 2 solid days looking through all the documentation available, and scouring the French sites with cross eyes over script written French. Other than the prior documented likely place of origin (being La Motte-d'Aigues, Provence, France), and likely arrival on the "Wapen van Alkmaar" and not the "Good Ship China" like her husband Jean Jourdan , I find nothing concrete.
For the sake of sanity in the Wikkie is it not feasible to create a new Isabeau that encompasses the facts to hand, and divorce her from both (undocumented) sets of parents. And when some person finally nails a good birth record in La Motte we can then update accordingly ?
In all events to trace her back to le Motte during the very unsettled Europe of around 1650 may prove to be impossible? Especially given that she seems to have kindda travled on her own and not in a family group of de Longe? Yes there is the the other girl whom is proposed as a cousin (Suzanne Goirande) that she is recorded as travelling across Europe with - but no hard answers. So make her stand in her own right and let the parents come as they might!
edited by Dirk Toms
The same individual was married to both Jourdaan and Malan.
Le 18 janvier Lannee 1699 Janne fille de izabeau Longue Veuve du defunct jean jourdan pour temoins Jacque Mallant Et Hanne fauche pour Marraine
The 18 January in the year 1699. Janne daughter of Izabeau Longue widow of the deceased Jean Jourdan, as witness Jacques Mallant and Hanna Fauche as godmother.
http://www.eggsa.org/sarecords/index.php/church-registers-paarl/drakenstein-french-baptisms-1694-1713